At a recent festival where I was speaking I inadvertently caused quite a bit of controversy and concern. Over the course of the few days some were moved to tears, others to rage and still others to confusion. A group of young people tried to lead me to Jesus, a crowd gathered to condemn me as a false teacher and a few stood side by side with me in solidarity. But regardless of where people placed themselves it seemed like the whole place was ablaze with passionate debate and reflection.
At this festival one of the questions that I kept getting asked was “what do you believe?” It became obvious that some thought I was encouraging people to question their intellectual affirmations in order to rid them of belief. So here, in a nutshell is how I answered them in the last talk.
I am not trying to rid people of their beliefs at all; indeed this is not even possible. Without beliefs a person would not be able to get out of bed in the morning. Beliefs are operating all the time, enabling us to function on a day-to-day basis. I am rather interested in showing how what we really believe often has nothing whatsoever to do with what we say we believe (i.e. the story we tell ourselves about ourselves).
Take the example of buying chocolate from a corner shop. If I know, or suspect, that the chocolate is made from coco beans picked by children under the conditions of slavery then, regardless of what I say, I believe in child slavery. For the belief operates at a material level (the level of what I do) rather than at the level of the mind (what I tell myself I believe). And I can’t hide in supposed ignorance either for if I don’t know about how most chocolate is made it is likely that my lack of knowledge is a form of refusal to care. For the very fact that there is Fair Trade chocolate, for example, should be enough for me to ask questions about whether other chocolate is made in an unfair way. Or take the example of buying cheap clothes from a department store. Regardless of what I say, if I don’t ask some basic questions about where the clothes come from I believe in sweatshops. Or at best I believe in ignorance, in not asking questions and in the virtue of being an uncritical consumer. Again these beliefs are not ones I will admit to myself (bring to my mind) but rather they are beliefs I enact as a result of my basic desires (arising from my heart). Finally, if I didn’t stand up to protest against rendition flights, if I didn’t voice my disgust at the practices that go on in places like Guantanamo Bay in my name, then I believe in torture.
In the West we are very prone to think that beliefs operate at the level of the mind, however what goes on in the mind has no necessary relation to the material realty of our operative beliefs (those that we enact). For example a person may “believe” that they are utterly safe in a roller coaster and yet be too terrified to ever step onto one. The point is that the conscious claim (I am rational and know that this is safe) is a mere story that covers over the operative belief (I will not be safe).
In Biblical terms the latter is understood as the category of the “heart”. The text clearly informs us in various places that we live from the heart rather than the mind. Indeed Bonheoffer shows us that the text categorically rejects the notion that beliefs arise from the latter. This means that when we read of how we should confess with our lips and believe in our heart that Christ is Lord this does not mean that we ought to make some intellectual confession. The text is abundantly clear that to confess with ones lips means to speak love, grace and mercy and that to believe in ones heart means to demonstrate these virtues in the very texture of ones life. This is why I reject the religious/spiritual debate. For me Christianity is “none of the above”. It is nothing less than a material faith i.e. a mode of being that transforms ones material actuality.
One of the reasons why we cannot actually admit to ourselves the truth of what we believe (i.e. our beliefs as reflected in our material actuality) is because we have not experienced grace. If, for instance, I mostly watch family television and comedies then I don’t believe in watching politically informative documentaries that might challenge how I might live. But I can’t admit that to myself because I would find it hard to accept myself, or feel that I could be accepted by others, if I did.
In grace (the experience of actually accepting that you are accepted) we can admit to who we are without excuses, or even trying to change. For in grace we accept that we are accepted as we are and don’t have to change anything. The power of grace really comes to light when we realise that it is only as we are able to find this acceptance and admit to our darkness that the darkness begins to dissipate and our basic operating code begins to change.
This is what we see operating in AA where a person is able to stop deceiving or condemning themselves and simply admit that they are an alcoholic. They are able to do this because they are in a room full of people overflowing with grace. People who accept them for what they are, not what they might one day be. Here in this space of grace where we do not need to change, true change begins to sprout from the dry earth of our being.
Peter, thanks for these thoughts. I find myself in agreement with your perspective on this issue, even in light of how painful it is when I apply to my own life. Keep up the unpopular and highly criticized work.
“To be great is to be misunderstood.”
I especially identify with the roller coaster analogy, but I neither believe them safe (despite a relatively low accident rate) nor do I want to get on them. Not sure if that’s intellectual honesty, but there it is.
Larger question is, keeping track of all the potentially unethical things we might do from the minute we wake until we go to sleep, won’t we simply become obsessive compulsive while our lives pass by? I’ve seen people who police every morsel we eat, every article of clothing we wear, every utterance we, er, utter, and they’re not very fun or nice people. Point is, while I’m all for intellectual honesty and laying claim to believing only what we REALLY believe at the root level, can’t this risk keeping our heads so busy we forget about the body, about love, about living out of whatever paltry and contradictory convictions we do have?
Thanks for your writings, by the way!
Peter, I’ve been muddling through similar thoughts in my mind the past few years.
I can say/pray/write/teach/explain what I believe multiple times … but what do my actions show that I believe?
I am very thankful for this post.
In response to Stephen’s comment about becoming obsessive compulsive with these types of decisions:
My family has stopped shopping at Walmart, Target, Kohls, JC Penney, Chiquita Bananas, and Shell Gas Station.
(I do not say this pridefully as this has been a very difficult transition for our family and quite humbling, to say the least…)
Once you are made aware of the practices of a company, you then put the truth into the light and it’s very difficult to step foot back into that store without feeling a great amount of guilt. It’s not difficult (or obsessive compulsive) once that decision is made. From sweat shops and unfair labor to selling “dirty gold” to gas flaring that is causing health issues to the residents of a country…the list could go on and on…
Peter…I stand with you on this. This encourages and challenges me yet again to push forward…to stand up for the injustices of the world (at the price of not buying my favorite shirt or flip flops or dish detergent) because what really matters is the lives of the people of this world. My choice to stop purchasing from these stores may not change their practices, but I can stand confident that at the end of the day, our hard-earned money is not going toward any practices of any kind that serves to abuse, manipulate, injure, demean, or kill a person (either in spirit or in body).
“Here in this space of grace where we do not need to change, true change begins to sprout from the dry earth of our being”
…um…wow! i think i have a new favorite Peter Rollins quote! in all honestly…i usually dont reply to blogs that dig deeply into “what i think” because i have seen so many others shredded for what “they think”!(if people freely confront and dismiss someone like Peter in the very intellectual/spiritual room that he resides, why would they deal with me delicately?!)
that said, i will confront my self consciousness and do something about it, rather than hiding behind it. in the light of the fact that we are all just wrestling with this life in christ, i have accepted that i am very likely wrong a lot of the time, and that it is in the discourse that what i know and do not know is exposed.
stephen, i think what is important here is not that we loose our minds examining every tiny corner for the proverbial spider web in the corner. more that as children of our unconditionally loving parent, we have been freed to look at those places honestly and safely, rather than fighting so hard not to look. it is in this light, we can love ourselves and one another; all things are possible, and everything begins to change!
Excellent article Peter; succinct and searingly insightful. One of your best.
As I read this I realized this morning that my $75. blouse from Macy’s was made in China (way less on sale). It surprised me this morning when I read the label, but I really do love the blouse. Snicker’s Candy bars are my favorites, and they are easy to get to.
No matter where we shop, I’m thinking there will always be something linking that may not be quite right. I want to encourage, push, and be very vocal in speaking, writing to our government leaders to bring back more of the manufacturing, tailoring, shoemaking industries to the United States, and to use those countries who do not have sweatshop labor or torturous policies to produce their products.
Thank you for the article, makes us think!!!
I hear ya Jay. Unfortunately for me, I don’t think the problem is with the governments, I don’t even think the problem is with economy, nor even human greed. I am struggling to determine where it is but it seems much deeper. The urge to “do something” is powerful but I am thinking even the greatest human endeavor is not.
As distasteful as it is to write, I believe the greater lesson is in you and me sitting in amongst our piles of stuff, produced by slaves, and simply feel the consuming fire of God burn down our albeit misguided, narcissistic human hearts. Maybe then, (just maybe), we can know love deep enough to at least buy that same slave made product and give it directly to those within our own reach, who are living in slave labor conditions. We can wear our old clothes.
Or perhaps trade their old clothes for our newly purchased slave made clothes. While there is no solution to slavery in this, there is at least the equity of slaves own the very same high quality products they manufacture for you and I, the rich. Perhaps then you and I can escape the same fiery fate of the rich man in Jesus’ parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Let us not be so quick to think that just because something’s made in China – or not made in the US – it’s made by slaves in a sweatshop.
True too Filip. And on the other – other side of the coin, if we boycott all the stuff made cheap in China, even the underpaid workers will lose their jobs.
What you do is what you believe. I think Aristotle or someone said that. http://g0spel0fj0hn.com/2011/04/30/pink-pekinese-dreams-of-pontius-pilate/
My mom showed me this and I really liked it. I’m a 16 year old who has decided to go and find out about where my clothes and belongings come from. Once I found out about my favorite stores using them I was honestly really upset. I told my friends about my findings and that I was going to stop shopping there. Instead of support I got complete shut down. They told me “just because you do something is to going to change anything”, “I honestly don’t care about where my stuff is made, if it’s cute I’m going to buy it”, and other crude jokes about it all. It makes me very sad that my friends reacted this way, but at the same time it inspires me to do more.
I stubble with organized religion and mainstream churches, so I can relate in the fact that actions show so much more than just what you say, believe, or appear as.
Thanks again, really eye opening, hopefully I’ll find my group of supporters here soon enough.
What a great, brave and respectful discussion. To Kayleigh Ann, we made similar decisions as a family 4 years ago not to support the unethical production of fashion. We buy our clothes in thrift stores or accept hand me downs for our daughter. I buy underwear at one of two department stores which have at least committed to developing their already well above average ethical stances (M and S and John Lewis but we live in the UK so that’s probably not helpful to you).
It’s taken some adjustment and some hard work but I realised lately what freedom it had given me too as it has reduced the often overwhelming choice and distractions of the mall and that simplicity has freed up more space in my head for God. Gradually my interest in magazines and advertising has waned. I still love to wear pretty clothes but enjoy putting together items creatively which I’ve thrifted and frankly get to wear much more high quality items than I could afford new anyway. I’m not saying this to say “we’ve arrived”. I just really wanted to encourage you on your journey as I know it’s tough but I think you’ll discover unexpected added benefits to your choice, emotionally, spiritually, creatively, financially…so don’t be put off by peer pressure.
You always put out Ideas that make me really think about life. Good job.
Peter, I was intrigued by the way you started this article:
“At a recent festival where I was speaking I inadvertently caused quite a bit of controversy and concern. [...] A group of young people tried to lead me to Jesus, a crowd gathered to condemn me as a false teacher and a few stood side by side with me in solidarity. [...] At this festival one of the questions that I kept getting asked was ‘what do you believe?’”
Could you please elaborate on why there was so much controversy surrounding you at this festival?
Also, in your article you never actually said what you believe. You just said that our actions show what we believe. You made some great points about social justice issues that I whole-heartedly agree with, but I would just like to ask you a question:
Do you believe that Jesus is God’s Son and that He is the only way to salvation?
Thank you for your time, and I hope to receive a reply from you.
Hi Mark,
Maybe I’m totally off, but I get the feeling you’re trying to push Pete to confess a particular set of beliefs so that you can make up your mind about him (e.g. answering in the affirmative will give you confidence in his other ideas, answering in the negative will give you internal permission to marginalize them).
I would just like to point out — respectfully, I hope — that your question may be irrelevant. It is full of black boxes (e.g. “God’s Son” and “need for salvation”) that contain their own underlying assumptions, no doubt born out of your own experiences and worldview which you’ve woven together in a comforting narrative. Trust me — I’ve done the same.
So perhaps the question for you is: if you believe that Jesus is God’s Son and has provided salvation…has anybody noticed the difference? I think that would be Pete’s point.
I drove to St Louis with my dad this weekend & he asked me about Outlaw Preachers. I sputtered some stuff about radical inclusivity and emphasizing community over the believe–>behave–>belong model. He said it sounded like AA (he’s 24 years sober). I told him he’s probably right. This post was confirmation.
I absolutely think it is crucial to illumine the ironic gesture in our lives, participating in the very system we disavow (i.e. condemning corporations in a starbucks or criticizing our dependence on oil while driving a Ford F-150…my truck). Yet, I don’t know if it helps by exaggerating the situation either. The fact remains, I genuinely do disavow American (and my own) dependence on oil while I drive my truck. I have a bike and ride it as much as I can, but I quickly discovered some highly significant health risks to driving by freeways and roads everyday to go to work on a bike (e.g. the smog breathed in). Then I considered selling my truck and realized that even if I sell my truck and get a prius or better yet, I just go without a car entirely…I have still ‘sold’ my truck. Somebody is driving it. I haven’t done a thing to really get it off the road, only satisfied my own self-righteousness. Furthermore, the nature of living in America for most of us entails the necessity of having a car. There are certain jobs you just can’t have without having a car. In many cases, you can’t show up to work sweating from a bike ride or a run, you need to wear a suit and tie and nice shoes. Work is, for many of us, often 30-40min. by car from houses/apartments that we can afford. When I purchase my next car, it will probably be more fuel efficient just simply because I can’t afford gas prices right now; but the fact is I use the bed all the time to help friends move, load oversized objects, etc. which I could not do in a car. I think about gardeners and construction workers for whom, flatbed trucks are kind of a necessity. This is only one example, and we could keep going, but there are multiple issues. It’s not “if you drive a truck then you believe in dependence on oil”…most who drive trucks would love to see solutions to these problems and am actively trying to work to find them, but as it is, while honestly looking at the situation, I don’t see an immediate way out.
For some of us, cheap clothing is all we can afford. It’s larger and more complex than ‘believing in sweatshops’. It’s probably more honestly ‘believing in being clothed’ conjoined with the inability to make one’s own clothing and not having a lot of money. Instead of chastising people for not knowing how to make their own clothing, TEACH! Seriously, if you know how, teach me, I would love to learn. I would love to learn how to go out and find raw materials, render them into usable sewing material and make it into a enough articles of clothing to live in while paying the bills, spending time with friends and family, actively protesting every political injustice I disavow and sleeping 7 hours every night. Tell me how.
Belief is not proven simply by someone engaging in an activity that seems contradictory towards those beliefs. Belief is proven when viable alternatives are presented and an individual deliberately chooses one over the other. Arguments as to the ‘viable’ nature of alternatives continue to bustle. And many people just simply are ignorant to most of this. Noam Chomsky reads six newspapers a day. He has devoted his life to studying these issues and so he is able to educate us. But as he said, the average american is usually too tired to carry on a research project after work everyday. Not only are most too tired to do so, but they lack the research skills and critical thinking to do so efficiently and effectively. There is a lot of information out there and it is understandably overwhelming to most people. Here, I see a need for education – deep seated education, not just enabling the passage of testing.
There is an anxiety that is caused by unclear thinking on these issues which is neither helpful nor constructive. What does it mean to ‘believe’ in something materially? Does it mean I have to sit in congressmen’s offices to protest every political thing I disavow? Should every minute of my day, everyday be spent as a political activist? Of course we must try to live as consistently as we can, but most of us don’t always know how to find solutions and individual piety or self-righteousness doesn’t solve anything but individual guilt and ignores the systemic nature of these problems. The fact that one would feel guilty for not working 45 hours/wk at a perfectly socially responsible job then actively protesting every political injustice there is before and after work, while making one’s own food, clothing and medicine for one’s self and one’s own family, while being an involved and interested father/mother, and maintaining a social life with friends, etc…is insane. We don’t have miraculous power (side note: pentecostals, if you seriously have an “in” with the Holy Spirit, instead of gathering in tents to bark like dogs, how about actually feeding the starving, providing work for the mass unemployed, educating the uninformed and dull minded? Thanks). The issues are complex and absolutely must be addressed, but must be addressed with nuance and sophistication. One person can’t do everything all at once and notions of personal responsibility must be cast within the context of a complex account of the particular existence of that individual. Sometimes words themselves are powerful material expressions of our belief, because words are material.
Nice post, Pete. Nice response, Austin. Beliefs are not, as we have been taught, personal. They are social and relational; they are patterns of relating; they yoke us to each other and the world. This is a really fruitful thread of conversation. Thanks.
Austin, you could simply carpool or convert your engine to veggie oil… You don’t have to sell it if you are afraid someone else will buy it.
Your truck reminds me of how Mother Teresa didn’t tell the guy he had to sell his mansion to serve the poor. She told him to share it with the poor, to invite them to enjoy it. There’s always a way.
As for clothing, you don’t have to know how to make your own clothing as there are second hand stores for cheap, and i’m sure there are friends and neighbors who are willing to clothe others for no charge if you simply ask.
Sometimes the answer isn’t to get rid of something, but to create another use for it. Our own story is like this even; we aren’t to be destroyed, but to be changed. Made into something new. Likewise are the things that are destroying the world. They are to be renewed and made beautiful, to reflect the Lord’s glory.
We don’t have to be perfect, either. But if things are truly bothering us, then we will be inclined to truly figure out a way, and not seem so easily defeated. If we try too hard, we can become jaded and disillusioned. i’m not even eighteen yet, so there isn’t much i can do and i do get frustrated, but i learned to try the best i can in faith that our brothers and sisters are also doing all that they can and i think that is what counts. Small things with great love. Nothing is impossible.
Austin: I very much appreciated your response. I am a student, paying my own way, and accumulating debt as I go. I have not had the luxury of parents to provide even a roof over my head or food on the table since I was 13- let alone buy me free-trade chocolate, coffee, and clothing. I, as you pointed out, buy cheap clothing out of necessity. I buy no-name foods, and non fair-trade coffee products because I struggle to purchase food at all.
having said that, I DO believe in fair-trade, I DO believe in fair wages and honest business practices- however, it just isn’t an option for someone like me. I know how to make my own clothing- I happened to aquire a free sewing machine- from the ’50s- but it works! However, fabric is expensive, and it doesn’t have a fair-trade market yet that I’ve found. It’s still printed in mysterious factories halfway around the world. and it takes time, and energy, and oftentimes, a heck of a lot of money. There are also things like zippers, and buttons, and thread spools, and other essential items that are from all over the world- likely not fair trade either.
The problem is with our society and its lack of sustainable, responsible, and ethical resources as a whole. While it is very important for us to chose that lifestyle individually, its not always feasible. It also begs the question- why are we offered the choice at all? how can we get to the source of the issue, and insist that snickers bars be made with fair-trade chocolate, and Wal Mark clothing be made under ethical labour practices?
I understand the underlyling point here, but at the same time I am hesitant to say that it is only a matter of belief.
once again, it seems our world is not as cut and dray as we would like it to be.
Austin,
I agree with most of what you have said. HOWEVER, I am a pentecostal and I do in fact work at a homeless shelter/soup kitchen/community help program that serves thousands. Your heart shows through your words, criticizing an entire group of people who do the same as what you’ve described: live the best they can with the resources they have and try to find the truth.
So maybe their truth doesn’t align with what you believe to be truth… aren’t there many other groups with which you take some issue? Your post seems full of excuses while others try to offer you solutions in response. The point of the article is that we have to accept that when we don’t research, don’t buy things consciously, etc- that we have to accept that there are always choices and that we don’t always make the right choices. We have to accept that we live in a broken world and may support terrible things (even if not by fully conscious choice) and that the only way to deal with that is to live in God’s grace. I don’t know if I’d use the word “believe in” but maybe “support” or “contribute to”… but I understand the concept in any case.
Beyond that- where’s the faith that if we feel truly convicted about something that God will make a way for us? Maybe instead of running and hiding from something that feels uncomfortable, and even impossible- maybe we need to believe (and act in a way that supports this belief) that God can make a way for us to live without whatever it is that weighs on our conscience. That in His power as we slowly start to give up things we think are essential, He has power to provide for us in unexpected ways.
Those convictions come from the Holy Spirit and may be different for each of us in our journey. But- there’s that pentecostal coming out again- I believe all things are possible in Christ who strengthens me, and I will not shy away or make excuses about hard choices or convictions about using products that promote oppression, slavery, and immorality.
Andrea,
Here’s where I am coming from on that point:
1. I wasn’t saying that pentecostals never help out. I’m glad that you do!
Essentially this criticism of pentecostalism can be thought of this way: either the aim is too small or the method ineffective, or both.
The main direction of my criticism falls upon this observation: that the pentecostal faith affirms that the almighty God of all creation, with absolute divine power, fills his people with the very same spirit that spoke galaxies into existence and bound atoms into stars, and planets, igniting nature’s creative process, and what his people do with that immeasurable grandeur manifested as ‘gifts of the spirit’ is gather in rooms, rambling in a ‘special’ language, getting ‘god hits’ for the day, trying to heal illnesses of predominantly those within the group with prayer. I don’t question the benevolence or goodwill of such activity, and I know some people feel better about life after going and I don’t question that we can search the scriptures to justify it…I just personally find it highly questionable as to being beneficial. I perceive it to hurt more than it helps and to be highly ineffective (judgments admittedly dependent upon one’s values which I will not unpack here).
I understand the thought is that the Holy Spirit isn’t a power to wield but is a person with whom to relate so you might say that you can direct this power “to move mountains” only if the Spirit wants you to in that moment (a notably convenient way of accounting for the failure of faith in milk jugs or water fountains as well – “only if the milk jug wants to will I have the power”). Though there is the idea of ‘spiritual gifts’ which could be (and often is) seen as being under the control of the agent in conjunction with God. Isn’t it a bit disconcerting (especially considering the dubious nature of the belief to begin with) that such awesome power should be preeminently concerned with such menial activities? My criticism is for those who say “faith, as small as a mustard seed, can move mountains” and then in the midst of a world full of torture, exploitation, starvation and slavery, say the mountains God wants to move are the quelling of my road rage or forgiving my father, etc.
2. The idea that “if we feel truly convicted about something, God will make a way for us” is precisely the kind of thinking that I get a bit frustrated with. On the one hand, I might say, “fine, let’s say it’s true, let’s get convicted about ‘something’ – namely, ending corporate exploitation, global violence, sex trafficking, etc. If it’s true, then nobody has ever, in course of human history “felt truly convicted about ending these things” since obviously “God did not make a way”. In which case, I am frustrated by that fact. But then when no way is magically made, the response is “God’s will was otherwise” which undermines the first sentiment and I am frustrated by the vicious circular reasoning. You have well articulated one of my largest frustrations with pentecostalism – the emphasis on believing what God ‘can’ do. I can be an agnostic and still believe that God – if he exists – can do (that is, that He is capable of doing) anything. As a theist, one can easily believe that God can do anything. And so much energy, effort and time is spent reveling in this belief – that God can…but there comes a point when we have to recognize that a lot of things ‘can’ happen, but life is lived in the midst of what ‘does’ happen. And so long as Christian communities prioritize reveling in God’s abilities instead of figuring out how to wield what responsibilities God might have impregnated within mankind, no viable solutions to these important issues will be had.
To others on here:
3. I also think that if the message of the gospel is simply a way of finding peace of mind in the midst of having blood hands, then I don’t know how unique or compelling the message is for me. “God’s grace is sufficient”…for what?
“For you”
…great. Now what?
What if I don’t care about feeling guilty? What if it is not about me in the first place? What if it’s about all of us? In that case, I am less concerned about God’s grace being sufficient for my psychological well-being or my cosmic standing as I am concerned about God’s grace being sufficient for the ‘healing of the nations.’ In which case, if it is, then God’s grace must be empowering – not excusing. While I don’t see anybody on here using that language explicitly, I do hear it implicitly. (see Bonhoeffer’s Cost of Discipleship). So long as the Bible and the gospel are primarily about recognition, change will not happen.
I really do appreciate this about Pete – that he is working tirelessly to materialize our beliefs, to help us redefine belief as what we materially express, so that when we say we ‘believe in x, y, z” it is to be understood more as a description of ourselves than as a prescription of what we want ourselves to be. Working within the language of scripture, and the emphasis on ‘belief’, I would say that this is the only way forward for Christianity. Yet, we have to be careful in how we speak about belief, then (especially, since this will be so new for so many of us). Does benefiting from something mean I believe in it? No. Does consciously benefiting from something mean I believe in it? No. Does consciously choosing to benefit from something mean I believe in it? No. (the alternative could be worse) Does consciously choosing one thing mean that I believe that choosing that, as opposed to a viable alternative, is preferable for me? Yes. This is just what it is to choose (another dubious topic I suppose, whether we have the ability to choose or not – but assuming that we do…this would seem to be the state of things).
But is just placing belief (or, more correctly, believing) on the material merely a displacement of the problem? You’ve set up the problem in fairly standard ideological terms (in a somewhat Marxian sense even). But can the Real really be found/located in our social behavior?
Perhaps it is time to fundamentally reassess Christianity’s and the West’s addiction to believing in belief. Could we live in a world without believing in beliefs? Could Christianity exist without belief or believing? Is such subjectivity even possible?
Thanks for posting this, Pete. I really appreciate what you have to say.
Thank you, Mr.Rollins, for emphasizing the grace factor at the end there. I think it unfortunate that you are continually asked “what you believe,” when you really are only asking “them” to fully examine/challenge their own. One could make a declaration of faith in one statement, repeat it over and again, but really carries no weight unless its “materialized.” And even so, one can only assume one’s standing on their belief systems and that one would probably, at the very least, be a very good friend. I recommend asking Mr. rollin’s friends if you really want to know…how secure in one’s belief systems would one feel if the tables were turned on them?
Austin made some sobering points there.
Pingback: “I Believe in Child Labour, Sweatshops and Torture” – Peter Rollins | Theophilus Blog
beautiful Pete . . . I’ll be in conversation with many people about this topic . . . thank you
I attended the festival you talked about. And this article didnt really answer the question about what you were talking about. Peter I agreed with your topic, with your desire but I didnt hear much about Jesus, there was nothing of repenting and allowing the word of God to show us grace. You left the youth hanging with nowhere to go. I fully support the idea and reality of having doubts, and questioning our faith so that it might be genuine, authentic and pleasing to God to see that we are taking his Word seriously and watching our lives closley but there was no Jesus! No foundation to come back to, no cornerstone to start from and the youth came away confused and frustrated. I appreicate that you came to help us further our relationships with God but I fear it wasnt quite what you had hoped for. I dont say this to come down on you, or that I think your a false teacher or nutjob but as a brother to a brother, you have may have missed your mark on this at this particular festival. I would love to hear back from you if you had any thoughts or concerns…and simply to hear maybe a bit more clearly what your message is.
Thanks
If Peter Rollins doesn’t explicitly say Jesus exists, does Jesus exist?
I guess we’ll never know.
Awesome pete, very concise and a great summary of some of your previous work.
Austin I think you and some others have missed the point. It sounds like you are very dedicated to do what you can and put things into action. That’s great! You have already got to the place of knowing belief is what you act upon. That’s when you then cease from works as your justification, knowing, as the pointed out, the impossibility of it.
This is the same problem Paul adresses in the early church. Once knowing it was only the doers of the law that were justified he them puts forward grace as the only path to righteousness. Then, and only then, can you start constructing your life in a world totally hostile to righteous living. The early church struggled with what meat they could buy, just as we do with our own purchases. The writings of Paul in insisting that it is grace that holds us, then go on to talk about how we ought to then, in light of this, live. We must keep our conscience pure and be a good testimony to others, do as much as we are able to live in peace with all men, consider others as better then ourselves and to walk in love. But this is birthed not from guilt but appreciation of god’s grace.
These are the conclusions I have come to when thinking about the bible in light of pete’s continually insightful and challenging thoughts.
Blessings!
Nathan
Yes, acting contrary to what I intellectually affirm puts into question whether or not I truly believe these things. But this does not mean that action is separate from intellectual assertions. Take the chocolate analogy. Let’s say I buy chocolate for years, never knowing that it is made through child labor, then one day I learn the truth about child labor and decide to stop buying chocolate, or to buy fairly made chocolate instead. My action was stemmed from my intellectual affirmation that child labor is wrong and that my purchase of chocolate was feeding that system. I would not have acted (i.e. ceased buying chocolate) without first having an intellectual awareness.
Beliefs about God, Christ and Scripture work the same way – their purpose is to lead to action. While many evangelicals and other Christians have often missed the point and placed intellectual tenants above action, I don’t think this is the intention of most Christians – even many of those, Peter, asking you questions about what you believe.
When James says, “Show me your faith without deeds,” he doesn’t follow it up by saying, “I, on the other hand, am just content with doing good things.” Rather he says, “I will show you my faith by my deeds.” There is still a basic understanding that his deeds are a reflection of his faith.
Yes, faith is greater than intellectual understanding – but it is not less than intellectual understanding.
Pete, thanks for being you.
I especially loved the AA reference. Just yesterday I wrote about my own 12 Step journey which saved my life – where a church could and should.
peace, bro.
http://chadholtz.net/2011/05/25/hi-my-name-is-chad-and-im-a-____-addict/
In response to Mark who asked “Do you believe that Jesus is God’s Son and that He is the only way to salvation?” perhaps the best any of us can answer is “I hope so”.
That is, in recognising that belief is not an intellectual pursuit but a material outworking as described in the post, hopefully our lives reflect this belief.
Indeed, hopefully our lives will reflect it even if our minds doubt or we simply don’t intellectually ‘believe’. Maybe especially then.
Richard Hays, dean of Duke Divinity, has said that the Scriptures are only authoritative insofar as they are reflected in our living.
Pingback: My Digital Footprints « Warcry
“The text clearly informs us in various places that we live from the heart rather than the mind. Indeed Bonheoffer shows us that the text categorically rejects the notion that beliefs arise from the latter.”
That just doesn’t sound right to me. There are many places throughout all of scripture that talk about loving and serving and knowing and believing in God with your mind. I’m not discounting that there are as many or more references to believing and living from the heart, but you can’t throw out the many scriptures that speak of the importance of the mind in belief and living as a follower of Christ.
Here are just a few…
Romans 7:25 -Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Romans 12:2 – Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Hebrews 10:16 – “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord:I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”
1 Peter 1:13 – Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
“… live from the heart…”
‘One of the reasons why we cannot actually admit to ourselves the truth of what we believe (i.e. our beliefs as reflected in our material actuality) is because we have not experienced grace.’
bonjour,
I was just thinking that we might need to experience grace and truth together to admit to ourselves the truth of what we believe.
It’s like the AA room overflowing with grace,but also overflowing with the truth that being an alcoholic wrong.
I’m not sure but does an alcoholic make the effort of going to his/her first meeting because they know they’ll experience grace and acceptance or because they want help because they know their drinking is wrong?
I was just reminded of that bit in John that says ‘The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.’
It just seems important to hold grace and truth together or something if we’re serious about our material actuality.
Funny I was just having a similar conversation with a friend the other day.
This sounds rather like a clever use of reformed theology, specifically Calvin on our depravity and God’s grace.
What a finding about our belives. I agree. May be it was Paul conception of christendom, coming from a mixture of jew theology and hellenistic philosophy, that take this currently civilisation under ever & ever disociation.
Great thought, totally on the same page here! And as a member of AA and a recovering alcoholic of 10yrs…..thank you for “getting” how it works! grace and peace be with you…
Great thoughts as usual Pete. I was wondering though who is stimulating these thoughts, are you drawing on anyone in particular?
Bonhoeffer obviously but any one else? I wonder if this has application to all belief systems?
It seems I believe in spending a lot of time on the internet and watching TV, that one can exist on cookies and coffee and my time is better spent reading about theology than in prayer and meditation. Oh boy.
like many who’ve gone before and many more who will come and go after us we struggle through our lives in search of certainty, and lo- as soon as we believe we’ve found it, embraced it, devoured it and become one with it-it begins to crumble. at first, just a smattering of dust coming off of your foundation, then some pebble sized pieces and soon it has returned to the dust from whence it came…does that mean our certainty never existed in the first place?
we’re called to be conformed to the first born…to emulate and live like Jesus-who knew that the denarii mary used to purchase the perfume with which she washed jesus’ feet was earned through selling herself for sex. jesus believed in prostitution. he knew the home of zaccheus was purchased with money stolen from people in his community. jesus believed in extortion. he knew the lips of judas, his betrayer, whom he kissed would be dead by his own hand. jesus believed in the suicide of his disciple. the beauty of this is as you say in your piece- grace -jesus didn’t judge these 3 or position himself in a one-up fashion over them. he didn’t try to talk them out of what they were doing or tell them to improve upon that which they had already done. he loved. he died. he arose. go and do likewise, and show the world the power & certainty of grace.
(the experience of actually accepting that you are accepted)
Accept that your accepted – sounds like how Paul Tillich expresses justification by faith.
hought provoking article… it seems he’s essentially arguing that our beliefs are more accurately defined by our actions (i.e. consumer choice) than what we give verbal assent to (championing activist slogans etc). I get the feeling this sentiment is underlying a fairly radical shift in the church today (though I’m not sure yet if it’s good or bad or even if it’s really the belief driving the shift). Here it seems he is warning against supporting a certain cause in word while (likely inadvertently) opposing the same cause in deed. Against becoming the victim of the law of unintended consequences. And to protect against this one must examine the effects of ones actions rather than the value of ones (stated) beliefs. This is why we cannot judge the morality of “torturing for safety” or “bombing for peace” based on it’s stated goals of peace and safety (and smear anyone who doesn’t agree as a peace-hater). This is why we can’t judge socialism as moral and righteous because it claims to help the poor and smear anyone who opposes it as someone who doesn’t care about the poor. We must examine every system based on it’s material effects, not it’s stated intentions. Like grandma always said- “good intentions never did anyone no good.”
I would, however, propose examining his implied solutions (boycotting the products produced in sweat-shops, buying ‘free-trade’ etc) by the same standard of intentions vs. effects. In an impoverished subsistance economy would it really benefit the poor to stop buying the products they produce, or through stringent labor standards shut down their factory and thus take away the best of a lot of terrible choices for employment? Barring outright slavery anyone working there must believe poor working conditions at a terrible job is a better opportunity than the alternative (which for many would be starvation or prostitution etc). I just don’t know that restricting the (albeit terrible) options or opportunities of the poor would make them any better off. I’ve backpacked through many third world countries and watched plenty of kids working jobs I think they shouldn’t have to be doing. But do I help the impoverished kid running barefoot in the streets with a shoe-shining box by boycotting his business or lobbying to pass legislation making it illegal for him to work? It just seems a bit short-sighted and symptom-based treatment… like banning substandard housing in an impoverished country because it’s inhumane… the question isn’t “how does it compare to housing standards in America?” but rather “what’s their next best option?” Would destroying their substandard homes, making them illegal and writing regulations requiring insulation, climate control and a full array of modern appliances as contingency for an occupation permit benefit them?
Peter’s right, we need to think through our actions to see if they’re indeed supporting the same things the slogans we patronize claim to. You can buy free trade or boycott wal-mart and self-righteously condemn everyone who doesn’t join you as pro-slavery, pro-sweat shop and child labor but at that point you are doing the very thing you condemn…
I can’t afford to believe this post. There is no one I can protest to in order to end slave labor. Just because many of our countries have pushed it beyond our borders, we find, like the American South, our economies rest substantially on it. If I never purchase another item made by slave labor, it will not end. The only thing I can do is to pay double (at least), from producers who pay their workers a fair wage, while my neighbors are paying rock bottom market value for the vary same thing.
I am a barbarian, may God not hold my many offenses against me. In the end, may the fires of hell finally rid me of my sin so I can then be worthy of somehow standing in the presence of God, what ever form that may take.
There is nothing more loving, merciful or full of grace than God’s wrath poured out on the human heart for it’s many hypocrisies.
You know, after a while the “slave labor” controversy really becomes too pc for me. I spent summers from the age of 9 occassonally working with my cousins picking tobacco, or my own family on construction jobs. I was not beaten or abused. It was a matter of pride, having fun with family and learning work ethics. When I was in Turkey, I visited and purchased products which were made by little girls like me, working alongside their mothers to earn a living at something they obviously had a talent for. I do not in any way endorse beating or abusing a child in order to force them to work; but at some point no child will remember how to actually do anything but watch t.v. or play a video game. My entire family were tenant farmers and proud to produce for themselves and their community. Everyone’s cost of living is variable and you purchase what you need according to your income availablity. Besides this one issue, I agree with your assesment that we should walk the talk. Unfortunately, people have forgotten how important that is along with the company you keep. Just look at the current president. Transparent is as transparent does, and apparently a whole lot of people had their own idea as to what “change” meant. Maybe we could help the starving farmers and unemployed in America if we petitioned our government to stop sending billions of dollars (that we borrow from other nations) overseas to help others build schools, infrastructure and inevitabley; support terrorists who use our own money to plan how best to kill us because we are, in their eyes, infidels. nafta and gatt killed our industry and the Isreali hating socialists continue by banning their products- just check out where Victoria secret’s products are now made. Aomething wlse that is desperately needed is to teach children the difference between right and wrong so the next generation doesn’t run through stores beating the snot out of innocent people and wreaking havock just for the thrill. I pray we can bring undustry and common sense back to America so that we can take care of ourselves and those in need. God Bless us all.
I enjoyed the article as it talked about practical realities rather than purely spiritual actions / beliefs. Easier to worship god but much harder to address justice in the choices we make. Didn’t James the Just (brother of Jesus) say something similar?
James 2:17-18: “In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, ‘You have faith; I have deeds.’ Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.”
There has always been controversy over these things – Martin Luther literally hated the intent of the letter from James and called it an epistle of straw.
Here in Australia retail stores source clothing from Chinese factories also and there are very few alternative options available which fit into a family budget. Rather than beat myself over the head this is an opportunity to do some research and over time look at what I can choose. By the way, it is a misnomer to think that everything we purchase from China is produced in slave type conditions. Do you have an iPhone, iMac, iPad? All of these items are exclusively produced in China by skilled workers.
Our lack of choice is, in part, fuelled by decisions made at a national level. With free trade agreements and the dismantling of tariffs, corporations more concerned with the bottom line than investing in social capital also, the shift to transglobal corporate structures that have no allegiance to national borders or their people, etc. Here in my local community in the last week a significant employer from the farming sector is moving offshore in order to maximise profits. These are big issues
l’m not sure what the answers are if we continue with this approach. When I think about how huge the problems are and my limited influence it is easy to get discourage.
http://ipadapplicationdeveloper.org/2011/05/09/ipad-factory-foxconns-workers-to-sign-no-suicide-pledge/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/tenth-worker-at-ipad-factory-commits-suicide-1982897.html
Its not as rosy as you purport
Jordan, check out the recent spate of suicides by those “skilled” factory workers that assembled iphones in China. The reason? Because there was a nice little insurance package for the family of the deceased; that is, until the factory owners rewrote the clause in the work contract in order to stem the tide of “opportunistic suicides” (I really hope you detect my irony here).
– Talk about treating the symptom…
You might be right, idk. But my guess is, if you were to go there and observe the conditions of your everyday factory in China, you’d be absolutely appalled.
Hey Peter,
Thanks, I am really enjoying your blogs. This is something I am very much facing at the moment. I have recently started attending a twelve step programme which has challenged me greatly. Growing up as a Christian, I want to hold on to a lot of my “professed beliefs” about God/life/salvation etc, yet these are my hiding places. My god has to die for God to raise new life (The God above the God of theism to use Tillichs words). It is a painful place to realise how absurd and immature I am beneath my proffessed pretences about reality. Underneath, I am scared, surrounded in self aggrandized illusion and running away. The grace to admit our own absurdity is the only ‘grace’ that can transform.
Thanks again
Pingback: Reads of the week – 2011 – 20 « Hope In Love
Pingback: theology for real life
Pingback: Charlie Burrows, Irish Priest in Indonesia: Building a Church without Walls? | Gladys Ganiel
..Like the windswept treetop bent a certain way from the prevailing wind pattern, we, and our beliefs, are bent or subject to an overall historical/religious “wind” which in turn generates characteristically tangible, material belief structures but leaves little trace of its existence thereafter. This wind parallels another, more ancienter wind which sweeps over us internally as well, one which retains the tall order of transcendence. The intuitive, evanescent, non-materialized nature of the ruah elohim is something which can’t be tangibly accounted for or measured — it is breathed into us from a decidedly invisible, transcendent, formless God — and yet it somehow, someway fashions material belief.
I am afraid that nothing less than a material faith jettisons the intuitive, evanescent breath of God; a part of us which is intensely creative and bold and other-than; a part of us which can break any historical mold in order to bring about counter-transformation on a material level. It is primal/primary to formalities and lifestyles. Without it there is no belief.
Yes, chocolate consumed by us on the shoulder of systemic poor wages in third world countries determines our belief structure; but the guiding spirit or zeitgeist which undergirds the vast consumerism/free-market enterprise as a whole might be the real culprit here.
– shoot! I lost my italics end-point (supposed to end after “thereafter”).
*humph*
Very interesting piece. Pondering the idea that if ones words have not been materialized that they were actually never true. But also wondering how one could measure this? But interestingly this gives insight into understanding where mr. Rollins is coming from.
This question of belief manifesting itself in action can, I think, be seen only in part. It is a little more complex then that, as many previous comments have shown. We are, after all not messiahs, but merely serve a Messiah (or respond to whatever our particular belief system demands). Accordingly we can only live and act in a small part of our world, and we are also limited by our intellectual and emotional gifts, our upbringing and what opportunities exist within or after the demands of daily
life have been satisfied.
If therefore all the above in my particular circumstances leads me to believe that Jesus came to bring abundant life for all (John 10:10), then I will be geared towards teaching people to fish rather than feeding them. But as anyone who has worked with the truly indigent will discover, that belief is meaningless to those whose bodies and minds are so destroyed by physical and emotional abuse, for whatever reason, that it is a question rather of literally “feeding my lambs” until a friendly death removes them from their earthly misery. My belief has to be suspended at least in these circumstances.
Jesus too was extremely popular but also extremely threatening to some. He wept over Jerusalem, longing for it to be different, but salvation had to be through the cross, although since he saw humanity in a more complete way, and the cross was always an inevitability.
If my actions are solely the result of my beliefs, then my beliefs have to be informed and changed by my response to my actions if my life is to have any integrity at all. I suppose at times we are required to swop our crosses for a different type of service. Add to this mix the prevalence of sin which colours all that we and everyone else does, then we will be constantly having to compensate for corruption, mistakes, naivety and pride, both in ourselves and in those we are trying to serve however well-meaning we/they may be, and that, too will affect the practical aspects of our beliefs.
So it is not only beliefs which are shown in our actions, but it is also our actions which, if we are truly engaged in our world,
will affect our beliefs. It’s more than two-way thing – rather a circular one. Growth appears only to happen if we are prepared to let old beliefs go, to constantly act according to new beliefs being formed. We are then making changes to our beliefs from our actions and also as a result in any other input (like blogs and books and websites etc) and our actions are then differently motivated. It is not a fixed thing at all.
Margaret,
Yes, if action is the sole result/byproduct of belief, then one must place an enormous amount of respect and power onto results/things. In this way, isn’t idolatry crouching at the door here? If I ride my bike to work; buy used clothing at thrift stores; eat fair-trade chocolate and drink fair-trade coffee; recycle; reduce; reuse — and if I so with the sole intention of converting others to do the same, otherwise they are of a lesser kind, then isn’t this a laundry list of things to do which is not all that dissimilar from the Pharisees?
Indeed, a belief which only functions on a material level, relics brought about by ritual, is at risk of being pharisaic; of course, the flip side is just as dark — that seems to be Rollins’ point. But I think he may have outreached himself in some ways.
Pingback: Friday Link Love « The Blue Room
This blog post (all by itself) inspired me to create my nrand-new webiste, http://www.ethicalafterall.com
thank you!
whoa very bad spelling! I am sorry!
You say that being accepted without need to change allows people to change.
I’m worried about the opposite; about people sheltering within a church structure to avoid the changes they need to make.
I’m working on a christian responce to that, because I see how it effects me and my friends; we all have stuff we do because we get away with it, because we let ourselves off the hook and others cover for us.
Why do I say we need to change? Because it impares the full growth of our potential, but rather keeps us trapped within _only_ ticking over, because it’s not mastering ourselves and going with the spirit.
I know I need some brothers around me who will incite me to better things, and do the same for them. Me and my freinds have gone soft and world-pliable together, rather than being intentionally radically world-loving.
But what is that incitement? Is it engineering love into our lifestyle? Pulling the passion back all the way from love to it’s pre-requisites?
I feel I’m missing something.
You’re so right about people sheltering in the church structure to avoid change. The challenge of creating a church that is the change instead of the escape from change is monumental. It’s so easy to hide in God’s love and forget to “take up the cross” and live that love in the world. On the other hand Peter is right that we have to start with grace. Without that complete forgiving acceptance we could never find the safety to face what needs to be changed, especially since the worldly reality is that we can’t get everything right. As many have pointed out here, it isn’t possible to eschew every contribution we make to the evils in our world. It struck me reading Peter’s post that there is not a dollar I spend that doesn’t in some way support the systems of evil we live in. Furthermore I don’t think it’s even a matter of financial circumstance. If I had unlimited funds I could do better, but I couldn’t eliminate my contributions to those evils. God’s grace allows me to safely understand that, to make the effort to change what I can where I can, and to withstand the despair that would cause me to give up when I fail. I have to disagree, though, that we need to change because we “impair the full growth of our potential” and keep ourselves “trapped within”. I think we need to change because the status quo hurts others. We are doing harm to others of God’s children and the systems that perpetuate that in the world are what keep us from being God’s kingdom. And yes, even the smallest change is tough when you have no support for it around you! Don’t give up, we’re all “missing something”. We just have to take each step as we can find it.
As soon as i read the title of this article i knew the meaning of it. It’s not only grace that fucking saved my ass as an addict addicted to crack cocaine, it’s about moving my thoughts past the surface of whats in front of me. By taking action to think differently not only allows me to embrace the darkness inside me, but also comforts the wounded bits of light that scream to shine through the brokenness. When i find the root of me, i can see the root of the world, clearly. The journey is about experience for me, not words.. Thanks for the morning connect peter. Wish i couldve met u at the goose! Hope to be there next year with my friends The Gladdings!
Hi Peter
Thanks for your post i have been on this track for about 12 years and have developed a change and transformation product called MyCube4Change http://www.mycube4change.com
In our language we say what you value is what you do. People resist this and use belief as an excuse but real belief was about action not concepts and ideas (be love is a better translation for belief) I have had lots of resistance especially when you look at value in relation to time and how you are in that time. People can do it with positive value but not negative value somehow they know they will be exposed.
lets here more from you on this topic
jeremy
Change for the sake of change is foolish. There must be a fixed moral good or evil behind the decision to change or not to change, or to love or not to love. Because we can detect the hints of reality through our corrupted perceptions, even though this detection is highly imperfect, we know it exists. God is the only one who truly knows this reality and we must look to Him and how He communicates that reality to us in order to see it for ourselves. The bible is clear to those who have eyes to see. Refusing to see what God has revealed is sin.
On the topic of sweat-shops, I thoroughly recommend reading “Shantaram” by Gregory Roberts. He describes life in the slums and poor villages of Bombay, India. We can see that these people have learned to live beyond their conditions and that life is more than money (or a lack of it). I’m more concerned with the moral intentions of people as shaped by God and His spiritual powering of them to fulfill those intentions. The philosophical and moral foundations that reside below the surface, e.g. of the production of fair trade (or not) chocolate, are what should concern us.
Though I enjoy his style, turn of humour, and care for others, I am disappointed at the ambiguity presented by Peter. Life clearly teaches us that the picture can be black and white, though from a distance or through imperfect vision it may look grey. God has the only perfect perspective of what looks unclear to us.
Pingback: I Support Sweatshops « Kristen Mozian
A problem is that judgemental writings often present relatives as absolutes, and in fact, our actions may not show what we believe. I believe in child labor if the alternative is child starvation, but not if the alternative is kindergarten. I believe in sweatshops at low wages if the alternative is slow starvation working every waking moment as a subsistence farmer. Likewise, many cannot afford “fair trade” items, and their actions in buying the cheapest may reflect their belief in providing for their families. Finally, “fair trade” purchases sometimes tend to enrich “kulak” landed peasantry while further impoverishing the truly poor.
Why do you say that peopel have to have beliefs? Many people can live life without any and are forced to rid themselves of beliefs: to do business, listen to their dicator, DO THEIR JOBS. Many aspects rid people of their beliefs: such as: trying to acquire a large sum of money, Getting ahead in the world, Upgrading your social status.
Most peopel don’t act on their beliefs anyway, for example: many people would like to stop poverty, but they don’t contribute to aiding their causes (donating money or goods). THEY HAVE TEH ABILITIES TO React TO THEIR BELIEFS, but they don’t listen to them or ignore them. Their religious beliefs also are affected, because their everyday lives make them SIN and LOCK UP THEIR BELIEFS! POWER AND MONEY MAKE PEOPEL LOSE SIGHT OF THEIR BELIEFS, and they become greedy and don’t contribute to their causes, both timewise, and economically. CORRUPTION WITHIN GOVERNMENTS also keeps people from meeting their everyday requirements.Money is stolen by governments that would have otherwise supported several types of poverty.
Remember this quote that My grandmother told me. “I wish I had as much money as Donald Trump,”"That way, I could donate most of it to charity and keep enough to live off of.” This quote is for all the people who don’t lose sight of their beliefs. Everyone should stay focused on their beliefs so that if they ever meet the requirements for their beliefs, they can contribute to their crucial causes.
If you have any question or comments, please email me at (Jordantaylorrocks@gmail.com) or (taylor.lakesidefarms.jordan@gmail.com)
Anti-sweatshop activists have caused an increase in childhood prostitution
http://danfromsquirrelhill.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/anti-sweatshop-activists-have-caused-an-increase-in-childhood-prostitution/
Pingback: The Power of Story « A Better World
Pingback: Now what? « A Better World
Pingback: What does theology look like? « camostar
Pingback: Thoughts on “I Believe in Child Labour, Sweatshops and Torture” | The Mystery of Christ
Pingback: Cathy Higgins’ Churches in Exile – What Can Churches in Ireland Learn from the Emerging Church Movement? (Book Review, Part 3) | Gladys Ganiel