Yet, i myself yearn to jump into the actual “unknown.” Although it is a bit tough to sell people on the idea of jumping into something that is nothing–yet. Or maybe the nothing is the something we have always been hoping for? That is, the kind of subjective space that allows for that deepest something to find its way to the surface? I suspect that I am on to a point of understanding that is significant for me, even though it has very little value in the structures many of us call church.

Cheers.

I am always deeply challenged when I read Pete’s work because it creates words for the experiences I’ve had.

When I first left the church, I left assuming it was “right” and I was the “backslider”. However, my time away has lead me to realize that I’m simply stepping away from the known into the unknown.

It’s refreshing to have tangible words to descrbe my intanbile experiences; however, I realize that as soon as I have enough words to catalog my new “linguistic system” then I will have to leave my postmodern faith for the unknown.

This whole process is going to be tedious and interesting.

I believe Jesus’ washing the disciples feet was addressing this very problem along with his hanging on a Roman cross a couple of days later!He was the model for deconstructionist leadership.Unfortunately we are so influenced by the Evangelical model of leadership ( 5 fold ministries etc) as well as the ultra -heirarchy of the Roman faith that we allow this process to emerge (no pun intended) in our alternative expressions of faith.From what I can see of church history the early Quakers had a good view of community with each believer being a Friend of God who had the Light within.Of course like all movements the Quakers in time became as institutionalised as the groups that they had withdrawn from.I wonder though if perhaps this historic stream has something to teach us in our discussions.As Pete says language lies at the heart of our church systems – as a method of control by leadership and a crutch for dependency by the followers.The Hebrew language is ideal for word plays and many of the early prophets used these word plays and hence their religious language to deconstruct the religious systems of their day e.g. the sacrifice cult of the first and second temples.In Aramaic too Jesus took the religious language of His day and turned it upside down e.g. the Pharisees tale of the rich man and poor man after death i.e. rich man goes to Abraham and poor man (Sinner) goes to eternal punishent was reversed by Jesus and completely challenged the religious world view of his listeners.Perhaps we can use religious language to deconstuct itself through use of humour,story and drama as Jesus seemed to do.Now that really would take a mind shift to turn the religious language in on itself rather than invent a new hip language that will only be used in a new power play game!

I know a lot more than two groups where this dynamic has occurred – I am referencing two groups in New York City where I was personally involved and had to leave because the leaders got bitten by the fame bug – as this was happening, I felt a bit guilty in that I wrote articles that praised the group’s forays into the unknown (at the leader’s suggestions). While my intention was to encourage other groups to do likewise and help people working in isolation connect with each other, these articles ended up being used as fuel to help drive the leaders’ into the limelight. And once they got there, it became “my ministry” instead of a group project. They also developed an air of superiority as though they had found “the way” and those who chose to go another direction (especially if they felt called to stay in the mainline churches) were seen as “unenlightened.” At least here in the US, I am seeing a real receptivity in some mainline circles to this kind of dialogue that wasn’t present even a year ago but the Q is how to have the conversation in a spirit of mutual humility.

I may be lowering the tone. It’s at this stage I’m reminded of Emo Phillips joke – credited has the best God joke ever. I hope you don’t mind me posting it here:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.